Episode 28
My Dad, Vietnam and the Bruce Lee Autopsy Conspiracy
It’s one thing to be a degree removed from a celebrity—it’s another to almost, possibly, maybe know how Bruce Lee died (except for the super weird turn of events that resemble a case for Mulder and Scully!)
But that’s exactly where we find ourselves in this episode: one step away from unraveling a mystery that’s tiptoed through dinner parties, rumbled around old Hong Kong restaurants, and left one family with a conversation that’s been categorically “denied” for decades.
Stuff that helps you become awesome even if you're different: https://stan.store/elletwo
My grown up job: https://lbeehealth.com/
Timestamped summary (use the chapters if you're on Apple Podcasts)
00:00 Seattle's Gloom: Love and Misery
03:46 Pathologists, Conferences, and Autopsies
06:21 "Suspicion Surrounding Mysterious Death"
11:24 "Managing Visible Disdain for Stupidity"
13:06 "Bro's Face Speaks Volumes"
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Transcript
I'm technically one degree away from knowing how Bruce Lee actually died. Except
Speaker:everybody involved denies it happened. It would be very strange for two dudes to be
Speaker:like, we're gonna go travel the world together. I am never
Speaker:gonna tell you what to do with your face. All right, here we go. I'm
Speaker:gonna pretend I'm pushing record, because that feels right. Okay, I'm pressing record.
Speaker:Boop. Hi, everybody. I'm Lauren Howard. I go
Speaker:by L2. Yes, you can call me L2. Everybody does.
Speaker:It's a long story. It's actually not that long a story, but we'll save it
Speaker:another time. Welcome to Different Not Broken, which is
Speaker:our podcast on exactly that. That there are a lot of people in this world
Speaker:walking around feeling broken, and the reality is you're just different, and
Speaker:that's fine.
Speaker:After my dad was in Vietnam. I think he was in Vietnam 66
Speaker:to 67. He came home. He did another year
Speaker:in the Navy stateside, and then he was
Speaker:discharged, I guess honorably. He has his DD214. Anyway,
Speaker:had. He doesn't need it now. Benefits don't do much for
Speaker:him now, but he had his DD214. His benefits do
Speaker:help my mom, though, so there's that. Anyway,
Speaker:but after he came back, pretty sure this was after.
Speaker:I can actually tell you. Let me look.
Speaker:There's a reason that this matters.
Speaker:Yes, it was after. It was 1973. Okay. So after he got back from Vietnam,
Speaker:he. He had a friend. He. That he met.
Speaker:I'm almost positive he met when he was in residency
Speaker:in Washington. Washington state. He
Speaker:loved living in Seattle and. Cause Seattle's gloomy and
Speaker:gray all the time. And that was like his baseline state of happiness. He used
Speaker:to go outside when it was overcast and take what he called gloom baths. And
Speaker:that was to just, like, sit in the gross weather that
Speaker:everybody else is like, this is terrible. But he also. So he
Speaker:loved it. But we are also all very prone to seasonal depression.
Speaker:So in a very typical Jewish manner, he loved where he
Speaker:lived, and it made him miserable. So on brand. But he only was there
Speaker:for two years because I think he.
Speaker:Oh, he was there for two years and then he got a job. He got
Speaker:a job at ucf. Not ucf. University of
Speaker:Florida. What was student health at the time, which is now Shands Hospital. It was
Speaker:so long ago that it was before Shands Hospital existed. And
Speaker:he ended up being the team doctor for a
Speaker:game while Spurrier was quarterback. And
Speaker:he is not. He was not an orthopod, so. So he Spent
Speaker:the entire day, the entire game going, don't get hurt, don't get hurt.
Speaker:Don't get hurt. I will be useless to you. Don't get hurt. But he was
Speaker:the team director while Sperger was quarterback, which is pretty cool. And I am realizing
Speaker:that that means absolutely nothing to our very British producer. But that's
Speaker:fine. We have this. We have this like. Like
Speaker:diamond shaped ball that we use for things here, and we call it football.
Speaker:Anyway, so.
Speaker:So anyway, so he came back from Vietnam, settled back in Philadelphia, was there for
Speaker:a while, and he had a friend who was a
Speaker:pathologist. And they were friends, like,
Speaker:their whole lives. And they both were single, so they could kind
Speaker:of, you know, travel the world together. And they did.
Speaker:And they were in Hong Kong in
Speaker:1973. And just like, I. I want to say they
Speaker:usually, like, went somewhere for a conference. So
Speaker:if they were traveling, they would, like. They would, like, travel
Speaker:a continent, but they would do it as an. Like, they would use the converts
Speaker:as an excuse to get there. And also probably got some of the travel covered,
Speaker:but whatever. And so they were in Hong Kong and they must have been there
Speaker:for a conference because somebody that his best friend Pat knew
Speaker:came up to him to talk about pathology things. Pathologist
Speaker:thinks, for those who do or do not know pathologists,
Speaker:usually they can. They can look at.
Speaker:They can look at, like. I can't think of the word for it, but
Speaker:biopsies to tell you if there's disease there. So they can do that, but
Speaker:they also tend to be the people who
Speaker:do autopsies is what I was trying to say. That's the word that I was
Speaker:trying to get to. My word finding skills are just like a plus lately. But
Speaker:so they do autopsies. And so my dad went to. My dad went
Speaker:with Pat once
Speaker:to a meeting of. I don't know, it was like a party of a bunch
Speaker:of. A bunch of pathologists. And he said they spent the whole time looking at
Speaker:slides of dead people. And he was like, this is not my jam. This is
Speaker:not my vibe. I'm not going to any more parties with Pat. But anyway, they
Speaker:did. They did travel a lot together.
Speaker:And they were sitting in dinner or at dinner at a
Speaker:restaurant in Hong Kong. And this
Speaker:pathologist that Pat knew came up to him and said, hey,
Speaker:can you come with me for a minute? And so he did. And then he
Speaker:came back and he sat down and my dad said, what was that about? And
Speaker:Pat says, oh, Bruce Lee died. And
Speaker:they were talking. We were talking about the Autopsy. And
Speaker:I guess my dad just didn't really think to ask anything else. He was like,
Speaker:oh, is it interesting? And he was like, yeah, it's kind of interesting. There's some
Speaker:things there that, you know. You know, they've got to figure out. They might want
Speaker:me to look at the slides. I'm not sure yet.
Speaker:He goes, okay. And they went about their evening.
Speaker:My dad. And obviously, my dad has not brought this up with him in the
Speaker:last, let's say, nine years at a minimum. But before
Speaker:that, my dad brought it up with him a few times.
Speaker:And every time he swore it didn't happen, he
Speaker:denied that it happened. And anytime my dad
Speaker:said, do you remember when we were in Hong Kong? He'd be like, no, I
Speaker:don't remember that happening. No, that didn't happen. What are you talking about, that didn't
Speaker:happen? And he's like, no. We were sitting in the restaurant. You said.
Speaker:And then I said, and that guy came over, and
Speaker:it was pathologist out of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah place. And you
Speaker:walked away with him. And then you came back and you told me Bruce Lee
Speaker:died. He's like, that didn't happen. He's
Speaker:like, I was there. I remember it happening. He's like, no, it didn't happen.
Speaker:So there was a period of time there
Speaker:where I'm gonna guess that the pathologists of the world did not
Speaker:know that they were not supposed to be talking about this. And somebody
Speaker:threatened somebody, because it's basically as soon
Speaker:as they, like. Like a couple days after they left that restaurant when it came
Speaker:up again, because it became like this, obviously, this international thing where everybody was
Speaker:talking about it, and there was all this suspicion around his death, and nobody knew
Speaker:what happened. And. And my dad, being my dad, was like, oh, well, Pat
Speaker:knows. Why doesn't everybody just ask Pat? And
Speaker:so he, like, asked Pat, and Pat was like, I have no idea what you're
Speaker:talking about. That never happened.
Speaker:So had my dad asked a couple more questions
Speaker:on one fateful night in 1973,
Speaker:he could have actually known, and nobody would have known to threaten him.
Speaker:So anyway, I'm technically one degree away from knowing how Bruce
Speaker:Lee actually died, except everybody
Speaker:involved denies it happened. And some of them are actually. Some of them
Speaker:who are not Bruce Lee are dead now. So that's
Speaker:complicated.
Speaker:Okay?
Speaker:That is a thing that actually happened. That was my dad's life before,
Speaker:right? That's. That was my dad's life before he handcuffed
Speaker:his. Himself to somehow both his mother and my mother.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah. Just sitting in a random
Speaker:restaurant in Hong Kong, which is a thing that apparently single men did
Speaker:in 1973.
Speaker:Very weird. Very weird. Now, that would be
Speaker:very strange. It would be. I think it would be very strange for two dudes
Speaker:to be like, we're gonna go travel the world together.
Speaker:And, like, I have confirmation that my dad was straight. I do not have confirmation
Speaker:that Pat was straight. Is straight. I think he's still alive.
Speaker:And somebody said that. Somebody said that to my
Speaker:dad, like, because Pat was always a bachelor. Always.
Speaker:And people thought my dad was always going to be a bachelor, too, so they
Speaker:probably just assumed there was something going on there. There wasn't. Not that that would
Speaker:have been a problem. I just wouldn't have been born. But
Speaker:my dad. My dad had incredible
Speaker:gaydar. He had the most finely tuned
Speaker:gaydar, unless it was
Speaker:obnoxiously obvious. Like, if
Speaker:somebody walked in and was, like, talking about their husband
Speaker:right over his head. Totally miss it, I should say. A man walked in and
Speaker:talked about their husband. He would. He wouldn't pick up on it at all. But
Speaker:he would get patients occasionally
Speaker:that were
Speaker:like that.
Speaker:There's a very, like, specific type of. Of mental health patient who comes
Speaker:in and very clearly is miserable because they have a secret that they don't want
Speaker:to share, or they think it makes them. That there's something wrong with them. And
Speaker:then when they finally do share it and the boring old white guy across the
Speaker:desk has no reaction to it, they're like, oh, so this isn't, like, going to
Speaker:end my life? And you're like, no, this is, like, not a big deal at
Speaker:all. Like, you're totally fine. And then they never come back. And he would. He
Speaker:could. It usually with men was that they thought they were gay and they were.
Speaker:That they were struggling with it. And he could spot that
Speaker:a mile away. Like, he would get it before anybody I've ever seen. But
Speaker:somebody could come in, like, a man could come in, like, holding hands with another
Speaker:man, wearing a pride shirt, and he'd be like, how's your wife?
Speaker:But anyway, I say that because
Speaker:I was probably, like, I was probably an early teenager
Speaker:when somebody asked him if there was a possibility that Pat could be gay.
Speaker:And of course, at first he was like, no, Pat. Pat's.
Speaker:Pat dates women. I think he's just a bachelor. And then you could see, like,
Speaker:it's slowly percolating through as he's like,
Speaker:I mean, no, no, no, no. What?
Speaker:I mean, there was this. What? And then all of a sudden, like,
Speaker:everything Clicked. And he's like, oh, yeah, that
Speaker:probably makes sense. Yeah. It wasn't like
Speaker:it was a problem. It was just like, how has it been 50 years? And
Speaker:I'm just clocking this now. Awesome.
Speaker:Again, like if it's right in front of him, nothing.
Speaker:But if it's buried under eight different layers of pathology,
Speaker:right to it. Anyway,
Speaker:so we've got a question here. I find myself looking at
Speaker:people sideways like dogs do when they think people have lost their
Speaker:minds. I really want to say you're stupid,
Speaker:but society frowns upon that. My
Speaker:dog pees on people's legs to stop them from conversing, but I don't think
Speaker:I could get away with that. What is a way to get through this?
Speaker:So I think the question is, how do
Speaker:I not let
Speaker:it show on my face that I think people are stupid?
Speaker:And this question makes me laugh a little bit because
Speaker:one of my very best friends, we always,
Speaker:I say that she wears her emotions on her face because
Speaker:you can always tell what she is thinking. And if you are
Speaker:not, if, if you are not impressing her with your
Speaker:intellect, there is no question you
Speaker:can tell. And apparently
Speaker:my, my sister in law actually posted something I think
Speaker:on Blue sky and I have not been on socials like at all in a
Speaker:very long time. But I noticed that she tagged me on something
Speaker:on Blue sky and apparently my brother had said something to
Speaker:the effect of I don't understand
Speaker:how you always know when I'm
Speaker:unhappy with something. To which she
Speaker:responded with, have you seen your face?
Speaker:And then tagged me and said, I'm sure
Speaker:you can back me up. And I was like, bro's face
Speaker:has captions. So like, there's no
Speaker:question that
Speaker:exactly what he's thinking. So I think there are, first off, there are people who
Speaker:are just like that. And I'm not gonna tell you what to do with
Speaker:your face or to not do with your face. I will tell my brother what
Speaker:to do with his face. I have a couple of suggestions, but that's a different
Speaker:beast altogether.
Speaker:I, I think,
Speaker:I don't, I can't necessarily tell you how to control your inner monologue because I
Speaker:think your inner monologue is probably great. Based on what your outer
Speaker:monologue has given us, your inner monologue is probably great.
Speaker:I will say however, that if you try to replace the
Speaker:look of pure exasperation with like a look of
Speaker:curiosity, a look of oh,
Speaker:interesting, because you are in fact curious
Speaker:why they appear so unintelligent, like, that's not a
Speaker:lie, that's not A false emotion. So if you
Speaker:can work on curiosity rather than judgment.
Speaker:Thank you. Ted Lasso. It was actually. I
Speaker:think it's actually Walt Whitman, but we will quote the. The
Speaker:more recent prophet Ted Lasso.
Speaker:I just realized that I need to put Ted Lasso shirts on my list of
Speaker:shirts to make go me. Anyway,
Speaker:if you can work on curiosity rather than judgment, because
Speaker:there are things that can make people seem like they are not
Speaker:being smart that are. That are related to other things.
Speaker:There could be language barriers. There could be experience barriers. There could be culture barriers.
Speaker:There could be all sorts of other things. And when you take the time to
Speaker:break down those things, you find out that maybe this person actually is really smart.
Speaker:They just haven't been either exposed to these things or they grew up in a
Speaker:different environment. Our. Our nanny, who is. First off, she's brilliant.
Speaker:Second off, she is one of my favorite people in the world and very, very
Speaker:smart. But she grew up in Venezuela, and there are
Speaker:certain childhood experiences that she did not have.
Speaker:And she. Because she. She doesn't have an accent, but she will.
Speaker:She. I think she probably worked pretty hard to get rid of her accent, which
Speaker:was. I don't know that I recommend. But anyway, she doesn't have an accent. But
Speaker:when she says this, she always has an accent, and she says, we didn't do
Speaker:that in my country, I'm like, okay, you're. It's not like you're.
Speaker:You're coming from, like. Like 1947
Speaker:Russia. Like, this was the late 90s in Venezuela. But. All right.
Speaker:But there are some things that. She looks at me like I have 15 heads,
Speaker:and it's just because she did not have that experience. So
Speaker:curiosity over judgment is always a good
Speaker:place to start. I am never gonna tell you what to do with your face.
Speaker:I'm gonna venture that the faces you make are great, and we probably need,
Speaker:like, a GIF lineup of them so we can use them as
Speaker:reactions. In my experience, people who have
Speaker:caption faces often deserve their own GIF
Speaker:lineup. So there's a suggestion. Maybe you can monetize that
Speaker:and just know that, like, sometimes people are gonna blow
Speaker:you away with either how out of touch they are or how
Speaker:shockingly unintelligent something sounds. And if you approach
Speaker:it with curiosity, you might find out that you're wrong, which is a good
Speaker:outcome. Or you might find out that you are a much more
Speaker:tolerant person than you thought.
