Episode 44
Arguments with dudes on the internet: LinkedIn/Facebook edition
I've been doing the internet antagonizing. I apologize. Not to the people I'm doing it to — they deserve it — but to the universe in general.
Last week I got into two arguments with dudes on the internet. It's like a thing I do. These are always cantankerous dude bros, and they always get what they deserve. The argument is almost always the same.
I have one question. I ask it every time. It brings their very bullish "I know everything about running a workplace" energy down to a full Porky Pig real fast.
I also bring receipts. Because of course I do.
Plus: I got mad about the Turning Point USA halftime show in a business group on the internet, which is exactly where that conversation belongs if you ask me.
And in Small Talk, I answer a question from Nate in Provo, Utah, who doesn't trust compliments but believes every piece of criticism — and I explain why imposter syndrome might actually be the most arrogant thing you can carry around.
Boop.
TIMESTAMPS
00:37 — I got into two arguments with dudes on the internet last week
01:04 — It's almost always the same argument about remote work and micromanagement
02:16 — The call center manager who had a lot to say
02:45 — The one question I have for them
03:57 — I worked at a call center. The best one in the world. It was still awful.
07:21 — If you can only run your business by underpaying people, your business is failing
08:41 — Don't wrestle with pigs. They enjoy it. (I did it anyway.)
09:18 — The Turning Point USA halftime show got me. I tried not to.
12:34 — I'm going to find a different plumber
13:55 — Small Talk: Nate from Provo, Utah on compliments vs. criticism
14:41 — 10,000 compliments: "yeah maybe." Someone says your feet smell: "that HAS to be true."
16:36 — Why imposter syndrome is actually a form of arrogance
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Transcript
I have been doing the internet antagonizing, and I apologize deeply. I asked
Speaker:one question, and all of a sudden he had so much less to say. I do not want my
Speaker:money to support people who actively suck. All right, here we go. I'm gonna
Speaker:pretend I'm pushing record because that feels right. Okay, I'm pressing record.
Speaker:Boop! Hi everybody, I'm Lauren Howard. Welcome to Different Not Broken, which is
Speaker:our podcast on exactly that— that there are a lot of people in this world
Speaker:walking around feeling broken, and the reality is you're just different, and
Speaker:that's fine.
Speaker:I got into an argument with a dude on the internet again. Arguments with dudes
Speaker:on the internet. It's like a thing I do. Actually, I got into two last week.
Speaker:These are always cantankerous dude bros who get what they deserve.
Speaker:But it used to happen fairly frequently, and I don't know if I just don't pay
Speaker:as much attention now or I have scared off the majority of the cantankerous dude
Speaker:bros, but it has happened twice in, like, the last week, and it feels like
Speaker:hearkening times of yore, and I kind of like it. But anyway. It's almost the
Speaker:same argument every time, cuz I talk a lot about remote work and trusting your
Speaker:employees. Wild idea, I know. Treating your employees like adults because they
Speaker:will act like adults. Shocking. How could you ever believe that people would,
Speaker:when paid fairly and treated like adults, would do their jobs? Shocking.
Speaker:Impossible to believe, right? But I talk about this a lot on the LinkedIn box.
Speaker:And inevitably on one of these posts, there is some dude bro who wants to point
Speaker:out that remote work is ineffective. You have to watch your team all the time.
Speaker:If you don't, they will take advantage of you. If you don't micromanage them,
Speaker:they will not do their jobs.
Speaker:[Allison] Arguments with dudes on the internet. Arguments with dudes on the internet.
Speaker:I had one not that long ago who said that he managed a call center, and if
Speaker:people were not watched and monitored for call activity all the time, they just
Speaker:wouldn't take the calls. They just wouldn't take the calls. They would not do
Speaker:their jobs. They had to be watched and monitored all the time, 100% of the time.
Speaker:And he had a lot to say. And then I asked one question, and all of a sudden he
Speaker:had so much less to say. Shocking.
Speaker:It's a really simple question. I ask it a lot. It really, like, for some reason
Speaker:brings their very bullish, I know everything about running a workplace attitude
Speaker:down to maybe I have less to say. And the question is, how much are you paying
Speaker:them? And then I just wait for the silence. Or the like, full Porky Pig. Because
Speaker:the answer is never, oh, we pay them really well. It always boils down to, well,
Speaker:it's an entry level job.
Speaker:So I pay them entry level wages. So that's what you're saying. Because if you
Speaker:were paying them well, you would say what you were paying them. What's an
Speaker:entry-level wage? Minimum wage? 'Cause we know— there's lots of data that shows
Speaker:that's not a livable wage. $15 an hour? Barely a livable wage. Barely a livable
Speaker:wage. In most places, still not a livable wage. Double that is barely a livable
Speaker:wage.
Speaker:So tell me, how are you paying people who are doing this shitty awful job that
Speaker:even you don't wanna do? 'Cause if you wanted to do it, you would just do it and
Speaker:you would do it better than they are, right? And you would reap all the rewards
Speaker:of their big salaries that you give them. How much are you paying these people
Speaker:who are doing the worst job in the world? Nobody's working at a call center
Speaker:because they want to, or because it's a cushy gig. Let's put it that way. They
Speaker:might like their jobs, they might wanna work there, and I'm certainly not being
Speaker:negative toward those people who work in those jobs. Everybody needs to work,
Speaker:everybody needs to eat. If that's the way you pay your bills, good for you. But
Speaker:nobody's working there with their feet up on their desks enjoying the high life.
Speaker:I worked in a call center for a long time.
Speaker:It was awful. And I worked in the call center that was rated the best for both
Speaker:customer service and employment in the world. So those were the best conditions,
Speaker:and it was awful. I got yelled at constantly. People would yell at me for things
Speaker:that had nothing to do with me. I got graded on surveys that people would do
Speaker:about their experience, except if somebody talked to somebody after me but
Speaker:before they got the survey, they would grade me on what the other person did—
Speaker:experiences that you could listen to the call and tell did not even align with
Speaker:what the call was about, and I would get penalized for it. I would get penalized
Speaker:for things that other people on my team did. I would get penalized for things
Speaker:that other departments did.
Speaker:It was all a game rigged to make sure that you never got recognized for
Speaker:anything. And guess what?
Speaker:[Allison] I got paid shit.
Speaker:I was fresh out of college. I thought I had to go get a job at a big company so
Speaker:that I could have upward mobility. It was all shit. Oh, and by the way, I think
Speaker:I was making $13 an hour at the time. Even making $13 an hour on a team full of
Speaker:people who also made $13 an hour, I still showed up for work every day. I still
Speaker:did my job at 100%. Our computers were not monitored. I worked in a team of
Speaker:people, all of whom showed up for work every day.
Speaker:We had no attendance issues whatsoever. So I don't want to hear about how you
Speaker:have to micromanage your team. I don't want to hear about it. I've been on that
Speaker:team. What are you paying them, and why are you expecting them to treat you with
Speaker:benevolence when they can barely pay their bills on what you're paying them?
Speaker:While you're also treating them like shit? I have never asked that question, and
Speaker:I've asked it a lot, and been given an answer of anything other than the bare
Speaker:minimum. I've never once had someone say, I am paying this person well, I am
Speaker:paying this person at market or above market or well above market, and they're
Speaker:still not doing their jobs. It is always, well, we're paying them what we can
Speaker:afford.
Speaker:Well, then your business is failing. 'Cause if the only way you can run it is
Speaker:to grossly underpay people, you're bad at business. You're doing it wrong. And
Speaker:then you wanna blame your employees for the fact that you are bad at business
Speaker:and underpaying them as a result? Next time somebody wants to insist to me that
Speaker:people aren't capable of being autonomous at home, or people need to be
Speaker:micromanaged to do their jobs— and it's not just next time, it's every time—
Speaker:it's one question: what are you paying them? You seem to be okay with something
Speaker:that the rest of the world really isn't. There's the platitude— whatever people
Speaker:say— "Don't get into fights with pigs. You end up messy and the pig enjoys it."
Speaker:That is my general take of people on the internet who are not saying things
Speaker:directly to me, especially on Facebook.
Speaker:[Allison] Arguments with dudes on the internet. Arguments with dudes on the internet.
Speaker:[Allison] Arguments with dudes on the internet.
Speaker:For the most part, I'm like, I'm just gonna block you and move on. You don't
Speaker:want anybody to tell you any different. You're not gonna listen. You are too
Speaker:deeply entrenched in whatever white nationalist version of 2026 you wanna be
Speaker:living in. And so me reminding you otherwise is not gonna benefit anyone. And
Speaker:that is usually my take. Except I don't know what happened with the fucks I
Speaker:normally give, but they seem to have escaped. And I have found myself not
Speaker:arguing with people on Facebook because I don't care what they have to say back.
Speaker:They're just bad people. It's fine. But just being like— doing that thing where
Speaker:you're like, "I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, I'm not— yeah, I'm going to. Yeah,
Speaker:I'm gonna. I have to. I can't not." Like, these people who have been posting
Speaker:that they picked the Turning Point USA halftime show, the consolation prize
Speaker:halftime show for butthurt white people who don't realize that 14% of our
Speaker:population speaks Spanish in their homes and 22% of our population speak a
Speaker:language other than English in our homes. So it is not like you are not running
Speaker:into people who don't speak English or who don't speak English as their primary
Speaker:language. They're everywhere, especially Spanish.
Speaker:We would not have so many forms translated into Spanish if we didn't have that
Speaker:many people who prefer to speak Spanish, and that is not a problem. That is not
Speaker:a problem.
Speaker:[Allison] Arguments with dudes on the internet.
Speaker:Most of the people who signed up— and if you signed up to be part of the
Speaker:alternate halftime show, you don't get off the hook. Fuck you, dude. But also,
Speaker:most of the people backed out because they got so much hate for doing it. They
Speaker:were like, yeah, no, this is not what we meant to do. We meant to be quietly
Speaker:hateful, not outwardly hateful. Sorry, our mistake. We'll do a better hateful
Speaker:next time. But then on top of it, it was headlined by a guy who wrote songs
Speaker:about being a pedophile.
Speaker:When your president was recently identified in a giant dossier of documents as
Speaker:a goddamn pedophile. And these are the people who are fighting for traditional
Speaker:family and the whiteness of America. Hmm. Yeah, for some reason that in
Speaker:particular has broken my brain in a way that the filter that is usually like,
Speaker:this stupid internet person is not going to care that they're wrong or that
Speaker:they're a bigot or that everything that they are saying is hateful and racist.
Speaker:They're not going to care, so just walk away. My fingers do not do the walking.
Speaker:They do not. I have been doing the internet antagonizing, and I apologize.
Speaker:Not to the people I'm doing it to— they deserve it and they deserve more. I
Speaker:wish for them much more antagonizing, I'll put it that way. Like, it's not
Speaker:benefiting anybody for me to argue with these people, it really isn't, but it
Speaker:does make me feel better for like a second. And some of it is on business groups
Speaker:that I'm in, and people are like, why are we talking about the halftime show in
Speaker:a business group? And I'm like, because if you suck, I want to know before I
Speaker:spend my money there. I do not want my money to support people who actively
Speaker:suck. So if you could let me know which one you watched, so that when I am
Speaker:selecting a plumber, I am picking the plumber who doesn't suck or only uses
Speaker:suction to fix my plumbing issue. That would be my strong preference. Anybody
Speaker:who thinks that there is such a thing as things that are not political has never
Speaker:had a hard day in their lives.
Speaker:Fuck you very much. I am going to make decisions on where I spend my money
Speaker:based on who it is supporting. And if that means that you have a Trump bumper
Speaker:sticker on your work car, I will find another— whatever job you do that I would
Speaker:see your work car, which might be a stretch because I don't leave my house or
Speaker:look outside very often, but you know the point. I'm gonna apologize to the
Speaker:universe for laying down with pigs because they do enjoy it, because getting
Speaker:people angry is their goal. But I will remind you, to all of the people who are
Speaker:butthurt that we allowed a country that does not have a national language to
Speaker:feature in a private sporting event— a privately owned company— the NFL is not
Speaker:publicly owned, meaning it is not a government entity. A private company was
Speaker:allowed to pick somebody who does not sing in English. They were permitted to
Speaker:allow him to put on a concert that— if that is a problem for you because it
Speaker:doesn't center you in it, equity feels like oppression when you are the
Speaker:oppressor. So you're butthurt because something isn't about you for once, and
Speaker:that's okay.
Speaker:Please go be butthurt somewhere else and not on my feed. And now we'll go to
Speaker:Allison, who has this week's Small Talk. A question from Nate in Provo, Utah: "I
Speaker:don't trust compliments at all. If someone praises me, I assume they're wrong or
Speaker:being polite, but criticism sticks forever. How do you recalibrate that without
Speaker:swinging into arrogance?" I don't think you need to worry about swinging into
Speaker:arrogance. That is not a thing that's gonna happen. I probably could swing into
Speaker:arrogance pretty easily, but I think that is a very human thing.
Speaker:Somebody can tell you 10,000 good things about yourself and you're like, "Yeah,
Speaker:maybe." And then someone says your feet smell and you're like, "Uh, that has to
Speaker:be true." And that's just the way we're wired. Negative things outweigh positive
Speaker:things in importance to us. And it is because we assume that everyone is out
Speaker:there saying awful stuff about us and they just haven't told us yet. And so when
Speaker:someone says something nice to us, we're like, well, you're probably gonna leave
Speaker:and say something shitty, right? That's how this works. No, the reality is that
Speaker:when you're not immediately standing in front of someone, they're probably not
Speaker:thinking about you and they probably have nothing to say about you. And if it's
Speaker:somebody who is a garbage enough person to say things out there that they
Speaker:wouldn't say in here to you, then their opinion probably doesn't matter anyway.
Speaker:In the grand scheme of things, people don't have time to think about you and
Speaker:don't have time to make opinions about you.
Speaker:Everybody's just trying to survive. There is this internal training that we
Speaker:have that people are only telling the truth when they're saying something awful.
Speaker:And if you've spent any time on the internet at all, you'll know that that's not
Speaker:true, because a lot of people say awful things just because it gets them
Speaker:attention. We can't give more credibility to the awful things than we do to the
Speaker:good things. I think the question is not, how do I get more used to this without
Speaker:swinging into arrogance, but instead, "How do I start believing that I actually
Speaker:am worthy of all of these things that are being said about me? That I am not
Speaker:just making it up and taking compliments that I don't deserve?" There aren't a
Speaker:ton of people out there who give compliments that are unearned. There just
Speaker:aren't.
Speaker:People are not generally effusive about things that they don't like or don't
Speaker:enjoy or don't think were done well. If you would've believed them if they were
Speaker:saying something awful, you should believe them if they say something nice. But
Speaker:also, I say this about imposter syndrome a lot because there are a lot of people
Speaker:walking around with this imposter syndrome telling them that everything they've
Speaker:done in their career was just a series of failures that other people didn't
Speaker:notice, and that they have failed at everything they've done. They've made it
Speaker:all up. They're a giant fraud in the role or the position that they're in, and
Speaker:they're just waiting for somebody to find out. That is actually arrogance
Speaker:because that means that you are so much smarter than every other person that you
Speaker:have encountered that they could repeatedly miss that you are bad at everything
Speaker:that you do. The universe is so very much on your side that it has allowed you
Speaker:to repeatedly fail without any of the intelligent people around you noticing
Speaker:that you're full of it. That didn't happen.
Speaker:That can't happen. Nobody— you're not gonna repeatedly do a terrible job or
Speaker:make things up and have nobody catch on throughout your entire career. You're
Speaker:taking the power and the agency out of the people who have given you the
Speaker:positions, given you the promotions, given you the raises, given you the
Speaker:whatever in your career by thinking they must be wrong 'cause I'm just a giant
Speaker:idiot. It's not true. It's not the way it works. To answer your question, I
Speaker:don't think you're at risk of swinging wildly into arrogance because I don't
Speaker:think that's how you're wired. If you have to ask this question, that is not how
Speaker:you're wired. But also, if you would believe somebody when they said something
Speaker:shitty about you, that means that if they said something nice about you, that is
Speaker:also true.
Speaker:And you don't get to pick and choose which one they're telling the truth on.
Speaker:Don't worry about being arrogant— baseline believing that you deserve nice
Speaker:things and compliments does not make you arrogant. Thanks for being here, guys.
Speaker:Have a good day. Love you, mean it.
